God or Not?

Christians executed by Atheistic State

Posted on September 8th, 2008 by admin.
Categories: Ranting.

On Sep 7, 6:17 pm, “Trance Gemini” wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 2:55 AM, DriveBy wrote:
>
> > On Sep 6, 9:21 pm, “Trance Gemini” wrote:
> > > On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 3:52 AM, DriveBy wrote:
>
> > > > On Sep 5, 8:18 pm, “Trance Gemini” wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 4:38 AM, DriveBy
> > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Sep 4, 11:55 pm, zencycle wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sep 4, 6:07 am, DriveBy wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > I  just checked out Dev’s link
> > > > > > > >  http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm
>
> > > > > > > > It was an even worse blunder than I thought.
> > > > > > > > I really hope that Dev doesn’t work as a statistician.
>
> > > > > > > Dev didn’t do the work. He simply presented it.
>
> > > > > > The point is that he presented a link to a website that is
> > screaming
> > > > > > “AMATURE NONSENSE”.
>
> > > > > > Let’s put this is perspective.
> > > > > > 19.74% did not respond.
>
> > > > > > What does that tell you about those people?
>
> > > > > > Could it just be even slightly possible that those people don’t
> > care
> > > > > > about religion?(i.e. that they lack any definite believe in god(s))
>
> > > > > > Now when was those stats put together?
> > > > > > Which prison(s) did it invovle?
> > > > > > What is the socioeconomic background of the areas surronding the
> > > > > > prison?
> > > > > > What is are the persentages of religeuos beliefs of the population
> > > > > > that the prision(s) is/are located in? (not just of the general
> > > > > > population but of people who are of prison age and from the
> > > > > > socioeconomic groups that tend to end up in prison)
>
> > > > > > Don’t know?
> > > > > > If not then that is hardly a example of profesional (reliable)
> > > > > > statistics.
>
> > > > > > i.e. its screams AMATURE website.
>
> > > > > The source of the statistics was the FBI.
>
> > > > > Are you calling the FBI amateurs?
>
> > > > No I am calling Rod Swift an amature and I would call anyone who
> > > > swallows that nonsense “gullible”.
>
> > > The FBI was the source of the statistics.
>
> > And apparently neither you nor Rod Swift have any idea how to
> > interpret them.
> > You are demonstrating a “Let them eat cake” naievity when it comes to
> > understanding socioeconomic bias
>
> Exactly what required interpretation?
>
There are all sorts of issues that need to be addressed in statistics.
i.e.
- What questions were asked?
- Were the questions phrased in an unbiased fashion?
- Is your sample genuinely random?

In statistics there are two important concepts.

Concept 1: Sample
Concept 2: Population

If you wish to claim that theists are generally much more immoral than
atheists and use a survey conducted within prisons then your ’sample’
is all convicted inmates (who actually bothered to fill in the form -
19% did not!) and your ‘population’ is the community as a whole.

That sample is hardly what I would call a random sample.
The conclusion that theists are generally immoral based on that
‘sample’ is not based on a sample that reasonably representative of
the entire population.

A more relevant survey would be to select people at random (both in an
outside of the prison system and ask the following questions)

1.) Have you ever been convicted of a crime?
2.) Have you cheated on your spouse?
3.) Have you made a blatantly false claim on you income tax form?
(etc)
4.) Do you believe in God? Rate your answer from 1 to 10.
1 = Very certain that there is no god(s)
5 = Unsure
10 = Very certain that God does not exist

5.) Are religious beliefs or a lack thereof important to you? Rate
your answer from 1 to 10. 1 = Don’t care 10 = Extremely concerned.

The above survey would be much more meaningful to me.
Especially since in extreme examples someone who would be better
described as an agnostic (e.g. a hitman from the mod) might respond
‘Catholic’ when asked what his/her religion is.

>
> Please feel free to enlighten me on yours.
>

My interpretation is that atheists are indeed unrepresented in the
prison system.
The question is why?
I think it has more to do with economic background than ‘morality’.

I think that since atheists tend to be better educated and have better
jobs they
1. Lack the incentive for crimes such as stealing
2. Can afford better lawyers
3. Are less likely to be targeted by police.

>
>
> > > > > > Once you know the answers to those questions (as obtained from
> > > > > > reliable statistic gathering methods - i.e. not internet
> > questionaires
> > > > > > etc) then get back to me.
>
> > > > > > > > The figures represent the percentage of inmates.
>
> > > > > > > > Not the percentage of people holding a given religious/ non
> > > > religious
> > > > > > > > view.
> > > > > > > > LOL.
>
> > > > > > > You really aren’t paying attention. The gist of the message where
> > dev
> > > > > > > presented this info was _specifically_ about the number of
> > atheists
> > > > > > > versus the number of theists IN PRISON. The point being, that
> > it’s
> > > > > > > easy to make an argument that a christian is _far_ more likely to
> > > > > > > commit a crime than an atheist, and the religious affiliations
> > > > > > > provided by the beauro of prisons supprts that assertion. The
> > > > > > > extension of the point is that you, as a christian, have no
> > > > > > > justification by which you can claim any moral high ground over
> > > > > > > atheists.
>
> > > > > > > > So much for that stat. (Not to mention the class bias that you
> > have
> > > > > > > > correctly noted above)
>
> > > > > > > You need to take a class in reading comprehension. You just
> > affirmed
> > > > > > > Dr. John’s interpretation of _your_ message.
>
> > > > > > > Ladies and genltemen, we have another Chris on our hands……..
>
> > > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 1:45 am, DriveBy wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 2:29 pm, Dev wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > So you’re saying Christians just commit more crimes
> > because
> > > > > > they’re
> > > > > > > > > > > uneducated and poor? Even if that’s the case, there’s
> > > > certainly
> > > > > > _no_
> > > > > > > > > > > evidence that theism makes people behave better. If
> > theism
> > > > were
>
> > > > > > > > > > no i’m saying that educated and rich people get away with
> > > > things
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > others dont
> > > > > > > > > > anyway suit yourself, if you want to beleive the stats that
> > > > suit
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > without thinking
> > > > > > > > > > critically about whether the stats are telling you anything
> > > > real,
> > > > > > well
> > > > > > > > > > that’s up to you
>
> > > > > > > > > > > necessary for morality, the prisons would be full of
> > > > atheists.
> > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > > > > aren’t. Which means you’re full of shit.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 15, 11:23 pm, DriveBy
> > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 1:55 pm, Dev
> > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you so proud of the fact that you think the
> > only
> > > > > > reason you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > don’t go killing people is because you’re afraid of
> > an
> > > > evil
> > > > > > sky pixie?
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, believers are more likely to be convicted of
> > crimes
> > > > than
> > > > > > > > > > > > > atheists. So much for your morality.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > don’t apply for a job as a statatician
> > > > > > > > > > > > think demographics and class bais
> > > > > > > > > > > > (e.g. how often do doctors get arrested for tax
> > evasion?)
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 15, 10:44 pm, DriveBy
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dont talk to me about a conscience
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in your world view there is no such thing as a
> > > > conscience
> > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > chemicals reacting inside your head
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 15, 7:08 pm, Dev
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you don’t want to take my post seriously
> > because
> > > > you
> > > > > > know you’re
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong. You just don’t give a shit, because you
> > don’t
> > > > have
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conscience. If you didn’t know you were wrong,
> > you
> > > > would
> > > > > > have reasons
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to think you were right, and you would think they
> > > > were
> > > > > > good reasons,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and you would just love to throw these reasons
> > that
> > > > you
> > > > > > thought were
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > good in my face to teach me a lesson. You can’t
> > do
> > > > it.
> > > > > > You’re
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worthless.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 15, 3:55 am, DriveBy > drivexpos…@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dev i would take you seriously if it weren’t
> > for
> > > > one
> > > > > > thing
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a heart beat you would approve the death of
> > all
> > > > the
> > > > > > christians
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > world wide,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that is unless you are always joking about the
> > way
> > > > you
> > > > > > feel about
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > christians
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you had these means stalin would be made to
> > look
> > > > > > like a boy scout
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > frankly, i can’t take your false indignation
> > > > seriously
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 14, 5:16 pm, Dev > thedevil…@fastmail.fm>
> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell me DriveBy, if there’s anything else as
> > evil
> > > > as
> > > > > > theism, how come
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there’s nothing else that “people” stoop to
> > the
> > > > level
> > > > > > of defending
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only by pointing out the things it _isn’t_
> > > > > > responsible for? The Mafia
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doesn’t claim superiority by pointing out the
> > > > things
> > > > > > the “not Mafia”
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does. Nobody defends AIDS by pointing out all
> > the
> > > > > > things that were
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > killed by “not AIDS”. I’ve never heard anyone
> > > > defend
> > > > > > racism by
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pointing out all the crimes done by
> > non-racists.
> > > > > > Nobody defends drug
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > addiction by pointing out all the crimes
> > > > committed by
> > > > > > sober people.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, everything else is judged by the harm it
> > > > actually
> > > > > > causes. Only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > theism is so sick that its subhuman adherents
> > > > > > actually think the fact
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that there’s a few things they aren’t
> > responsible
> > > > for
> > > > > > is any kind of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > defense.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Atheism is simply the lack of theism. By your
> > > > > > “logic”, aunicornism is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > worse than atheism because aunicornists have
> > > > killed
> > > > > > more people than
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > atheists by a long shot. If a cult of unicorn
> > > > > > worshippers killed a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hundred people, we would call their beliefs
> > bad.
> > > > We
> > > > > > would even cast
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blame on anyone who supported their belief
> > > > systems
> > > > > > with full knowledge
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of what they were doing. They probably
> > wouldn’t
> > > > claim
> > > > > > superiority by
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pointing out that aunicornists have killed a
> > lot
> > > > more
> > > > > > people than they
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did, and if they tried, nobody would take
> > them
> > > > > > seriously. But guess
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what? They’d technically have a lot more of a
> > > > point
>
> …
>
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